How do you see Joseph Lawrence? There’s so much contradiction with him. Think of him as Robert McNamara, a trained economist with a huge, brilliant brain. McNamara transformed the automobile industry, and then took all of that brilliance and was so eager to apply it in Vietnam [as the U.S. secretary of defense] that he exterminated a couple of million people. Lawrence, too, is somebody who’s big brain obliterated his humanity for a while, and now his humanity is peeking out. What is his relationship with June this season? He’s being led by her. I don’t even know if he knows it. But he brought her in and then kept testing her because he’s about to go out on a terrifying limb, and he wants to make sure that she’s not just a sentimental mother who is going to collapse. He doesn’t know where it ends—making changes in Gilead or undermining it? Are Commander Lawrence’s inconsistencies what make him a joy to play? Without a doubt. This is not only the most interesting role… I’m hesitating a little because I’ve had a lot of good ones, but it’s the most interesting to play because there is so much contradiction within him. And it changes the sensation of acting, because usually you’re trying to narrow the aperture to figure out what the character is. With him, it’s the opposite. Early on I said to [creator] BruceMiller, “God, this is just such a fascinating part. I feel like a boxer puppy at the dog park.” Which is not at all how he comes off, but there are radically different things going on inside this guy. You mentioned his humanity peeking out. Is that why he helps with the escape plan? And how far will he go to save his own skin when his part is discovered? It’s a very good question and I don’t want to give too much of what happens away. But there are moments, he still has his economist’s mind. There’s an issue later on in the season where he’s basically bargaining with the lives of children. We got about 80 out, and there is some value if I get 10 of them back. We still got 70 out. So he’s being very strategic. He can’t do anything from the end of a rope, so some of his self-preservation is strategic. After losing his wife and really understanding his role in this, I don’t think he’s afraid of death. I really don’t. When Handmaid’s Tale came out in 2017, everybody said, “It’s so relevant to the times.” Do you feel it’s as relevant in 2021 as it was in 2017? Oh, I do. I do. I think misogyny is at the reptilian brain of all white nationalism, which continues to grow. There’s an episode where I’m talking to June. I’m trying to warn her that they’re going to hurt her child. She says, “Gilead, all they care about is children, they wouldn’t hurt a child.” And I say, “Gilead doesn’t give a f–k about children. All they care about is power.” I think it continues to be extraordinarily relevant, because even on the left—I guess it’s the difference between misogyny and sexism—but there was a lot of unconscious harsh sexism in the way Hillary Clinton was interpreted from the left. I think it’s really, really pervasive. You also will be playing Stephen Sondheim in Tick, Tick…Boom!, a musical, with Lin-Manuel Miranda making his directorial debut. Do you sing in it? I do not sing in it; I just play Sondheim. It’s a small part, but it was scary. I had this problem before when I played HubertHumphrey [in the 2016 HBO movie All the Way], because maybe 10 percent of the audience knows what Hubert Humphrey looked like and how he acted, and Hubert Humphrey was a bizarre guy. In this, I think 10 percent of the people will have ever seen Stephen Sondheim. But the 10 percent who did worship him, so that’s a little daunting. And he has such an interesting manner about him. He kind of looks like an unmade bed. He’d do whole interviews with an arm draped over his head like he’s an orangutan. Lin brought in basically every composer available from the New York theater and I had to do this scene in front of all of them, but it was an incredible joy. And Lin is the sweetest man on the planet. He and I had the same crazy, wonderful acting teacher at different times at Wesleyan. It was an amazing moment when we finished, because he grabbed the microphone and basically rapped a thank-you to every member of the crew. It was really, really sweet and beautiful. You’ve taken part in two West Wing reunions. What’s it like to get together again? This is going to sound corny but, man, I love those people. And the farther we get away from the show, the luckier I think we feel, the more grateful we are for having had that extraordinary, better part of a decade doing a show that was so interesting to work on. They really do feel like family. You also have a project coming up that’s very near and dear. I co-produced a documentary called Not Going Quietly about Ady Barkan, a health care activist who has ALS. He’s an amazing human being. He actually officiated my marriage, and I love him with all my heart. I’m excited about that coming up on PBS [in the fall]. You’ve been playing all these dark roles. Would you like to do comedy again? Perfect Harmony, your 2019 TV sitcom with Anna Camp, didn’t catch on with viewers, but… Oh, my God, yes. I had played so many jerks that when I met Amy [Landecker], my wife, she thought I was like Ted Bundy. And it’s really funny, it must be some compensation, because I was raised Quaker and I’ve never been in a fight in my life. I guess I rant politically, but I don’t know why I get to play these parts. Often, they’re the better part; they’re the lead. Commander Lawrence is fascinating; he’s clearly dark. The best thing is when it’s all combined. And I actually feel that with Lawrence, although I would not call him a comedy. But it’s very weird as an actor, because when you do a drama, usually in a totally artificial way, you have to be completely irony-deficient for an hour. And when you do a comedy, in a totally artificial way, you have to try to be funny for half an hour or an hour. And the most interesting stuff is when the stuff that feels like life combines it. The West Wing was like that, and in a little way there’s something we’ve been able to find, a little bit of a dark sense of humor in Lawrence, which is harder to find in someone like that. This last year has been extraordinary for all of us. Have you learned anything about yourself that you didn’t know before? I have an addiction to being busy and it’s been very interesting to slow that down. That’s something I’d really like to hold on to. I know I am as lucky as you can get. We are all so grateful to have been able to work at all during this time. It certainly makes you realize that you can’t take anything for granted. If this isn’t a lesson for us culturally and politically that we’re actually all totally connected, if we can’t understand that, we’re in big trouble. And I’m hopeful. I’m hopeful about that. It’s funny, I’ve been up here in Toronto. I have never spent this much time alone. We can’t socialize. Canada’s very shut down and it’s just bizarre to go weeks. When I’m at home I’m with my wife, I’ve been able to be with my kids, but up here that isolation is fascinating. Next, Everything We Know About Season 4 of The Handmaid’s Tale
